a. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. How do the characters make judgments/decisions based upon the outward appearances of things and other characters? Are these judgments/decisions fair and right? Are all judgments we make wrong? Does the LORD ever want us to make judgments?
b. Simply by observing the characters in the film, we do not know their hearts; but at the same time, by their actions and words, we get clues about their motivations and beliefs.Giving actual examples from the film, discuss specific characters and what drives them to do what they are doing. Considering these motivations/actions (both good and bad), how do we see similar motivations/actions in our culture (either in general or specifically in our school)?
In the movie, Marcus was trying to retrieve the Eagle. But why was he doing this? He was doing it to bring honor back to his family. His family's honor had been lost ever since his father had died.
ReplyDeleteIs honor something good? Is it a good thing for Marcus to be seeking? Proverbs 25:27 says, "It is not good to eat too much honey, nor is it honorable to seek one's own honor." We should not try to gain honor for ourselves. Honor is a worldly thing, it will do nothing for us in Heaven.
People seek honor for themselves in real life, too. For example, someone could go into a fire and save a bunch of people just so that they can be known and honored. The same thing can be said for anything else, like sports. We are to do everything for the honor of God, not ourselves.
I agree with McKenna because in the movie the whole point of it is for him to get glory and honor for his name. So he searches for an idol. I don't think honor is a bad thing if you use it in the right way. In this case, the way that Marcus used honor was for himself. Which I think is a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteIn Deuteronomy 5, Moses talks about God's commandments. "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you." -Deuteronomy 5:16.
So I think that Honor is something good. But only to a certain extent. I think that to honor means to have respect for something. So you should respect your parents and elders. But you shouldn't go around trying to find a way for people to respect you. You should do everything to honor God first.
But isn't Marcus just following the Biblical principal from Proverbs 22?
ReplyDelete"A good name is more desirable than great riches;
to be esteemed is better than silver or gold."
Isn't he interested in finding the truth out and setting things right? Is what he did really that wrong?
Another thought:
Is Marcus concerned more with the outward appearance of his family or is he seeking out the truth?
I think what Mr. Scott said about Proverbs 22 was true. To be honored is great. It gives you confidence that every human needs. For example, if you want to be an elite athlete, you have to be almost a little cocky in your abilities. You have to have the confidence that you can catch that touchdown pass or make that buzzer beater to win the game.
ReplyDeleteWhat Marcus did was not that bad. He was getting back his family's honor, which was a huge thing to the Romans. For us it is like getting that championship that you should of had last year but you lost unfairly. It is still wrong to seek honor just for yourself, but Marcus wasn't doing that. He was getting back what was lost, his family's honorable name. He wasn't wanting to be famous or get really rich because of what he did.
I think that's true but it also isn't. Because I think Marcus WAS wanting to get fame from his family's name. But that's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIt is also what he did to get that honor. He risked his life for that honor. He almost got killed like 6 times to get honor. He almost collasped dead and would not let go of the eagle. I think he is so eager to be honored/get honor for his family that he going through whatever it takes to get it. That is some real perserverance..but I just don't know if it's too much or not.
I agree with all of you he tried to get his honor back from what his father did. He wanted to go over the wall and retrieve the eagle. As Lucy said he almost got killed 6 or so times just to get his honor. That showed real perseverance in that time. He wanted it so bad he went over the wall and took his slave with him. He wanted to find out what happened in the battle the eagle was lost.
ReplyDeleteI think one part of why Marcus was trying to gain his honor is he wanted to stop hearing everyone say his fathers legion was a failure. I think that one part of him was wanting to find the Eagle, but another part was to find out what had happened to his dad. When one of his father's soldiers told Marcus about the war, I believe that Marcus was relieved to finally know that his father had died an honorable death. Also, I think that Marcus wanted some honor for himself. I think he wanted to prove people wrong about if it was possible to retrieve the eagle from outside the wall.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mr. Scott. I think Marcus is trying to bring honor to his family name. He cares more about that then getting money or anything else. I think Marcus doesn’t want to get the eagle so he is the best and can say he did it. I think he was trying to get the Eagle because his dad died trying to. I don’t think Marcus was being selfish about it, I think he was doing it because it was the right thing to do, and it represented Rome.
ReplyDeleteExpanding on what Mr. Scott said, I think Marcus was concerned on how his family's name was thought of, that was another major factor on the decision to preform his quest. Also, in the beginning of the movie, Marcus makes the decision to save Esca by looks alone. He made a decision by looking at the outward appearance. At the same time, he saw how Esca was allowing himself be hurt and wouldn't compete in Roman games. This may have been a factor in why Marcus made that decision.
ReplyDeleteI think that Esca had his heart set in a good place. He was a loyal man keeping his oath even when he didn't need to. He went out of his way to help his master and friend. I think he made good decisions that were just and were thoughtful of others.
I agree with mr.scott. i think that marcus is not worried about the appearence of his family. i think that he is just trying to seek out the truth. He is more worried about finding out if his father was a coward or if he died fighting.
ReplyDeletealso i think that proverbs 22 is a perfect example of what marcus was seeking.
I completely agree with Mr. Scott. I believe that he was trying to find out the truth. No, I do not believe that the fact he was finding out the truth is a bad thing, for even the Bible says, "For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds..," in Matthew 7:8a. With that, he searched for an answer.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I believe it may be a little both. He wanted to know the truth behind his father's death, which was not a bad thing. But, he also wanted his family to be known, so when people look at them, they will know they are an honored family. The fact that he also wanted a good outward appearance is bad because the Bible says to give glory to God, not yourself.
I agree with Lucy and McKenna when they said that honor is a worldly thing and that it won't do any good for you in Heaven.
ReplyDeleteMarcus' father is dishonored because he lost the eagle and he is tired of everyone making jokes about it so he goes out and tries to find it. I think what drives Marcus is restoring his family name. Not wanting to get things or be put in a higher position for doing something so corageous. I think we see alot of what Marcus is trying to do in our culture because when someone says you can't do something we try to prove them wrong by suceeding. It's not that we want something, like money or fame, but we just want to have the satisfaction that we accomplished it and proved the other person wrong.
I agree with Izzy. Marcus just wanted to know the truth about his father and his past. He couldn't handle people telling him that his father was a failure to their tribe and that he was a coward and ran from the Eagle, but I also think that he wanted to prove people wrong, like Mason said, in doing the thing that everyone said was impossible which was getting the Eagle. Once he did that, Marcus knew that he would be a legend along with his father.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Mr. Scott. I believe that Marcus was trying to find out the truth about what really happened to his father and he didn’t care what other people thought of him. I don’t believe that Marcus wanting to know the truth about his family was wrong. He just wanted to know the answers to his thoughts and questions about what really did happen. I also believe that Marcus was more concerned about finding out the truth then his outward appearance. People in the movie judged people about their size, and shape and the scars they had on their faces and everywhere else. I believe that these judgments were wrong and not fair because the people actually making the judgments didn’t know the people and where they came from they just judged them on what they saw when they first looked at them. In the movie Esca gave Marcus a sign of his honor and trust and that show that Esca has a caring heart. Then when Esca lied that made Marcus think that he was tricked, and that Esca really didn’t care about him. It turns out that Esca only lied to save their lives and that his heart never changed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julia and Mr. Scott. Marcus does not care what others think about him. Most of Rome, including his family, thought he was crazy and that he would never come back.
ReplyDeleteI think almost all the character in The Eagle make judgments upon outward appearance. Like in the scene where Esca fights the gladiator every one in arena thinks he is going to die because he is small.
ReplyDeleteWhen Marcus goes to go get the eagle what is driving him is anger and hate. I think that Marcus wrongly sought out after the eagle. Yes he did go after the eagle to regain his honor, but his other motives were all wrong.
When Marcus’ father was mentioned, the Roman politician laughed declaring he was a weak man. That’s about how all of the people thought of his father. They thought of him as a coward, weak, and a disgrace to Rome because he “ran away” from the eagle during battle.
ReplyDeleteNo, these judgments were not right. Not only was Marcus’ name dishonored, but they also had the wrong idea of the person his father was. Because he wanted to find out the truth, Marcus went to go clear his family’s name. At the end of the film, you discover his father was a true warrior. He did not leave the eagles side until he was killed. His bravery and courage was actually more intact than any of the other soldiers out there.
I suppose not all of the judgments we make are wrong, but most of them are. No, it is not right to judge others by their outward appearance, because that is not our job, it’s the LORD’s. In 1 Samuel 16:7 it says, “But the LORD said to Samuel, ‘Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.’”
However, in John 7:24 it says, “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” I think was the LORD is trying to tell us is that under any circumstance, judging by the outward appearance is never okay. But I believe that if you have seen the actions of the person, and you know them full well, that it is not a completely bad thing to judge them by their actions. But keep in mind that we cannot make judgments about others if we have our own flaws to take care of.
Izzy is right, it's never okay to judge someone by their outward apperance. In this movie, it was hard to see into the hearts of the characters to determine what they are actually like. Esca was almost killed, then taken in as a slave by Marcus. At this point everyone thought he was just some weak slave who new nothing. Later though, you see that he is very aware of what is around him and he is also very smart, and he sort of leaks out some things that could also lead you to the conclusion that he knows where the Eagle is. Again, you can't judge people by the way they look, that's a great verse Izzy.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning kinda when that had the man with the two faced mask on fighting the weak person(slave) that shows how people are looking at how weak Esca was instead of how his heart was and the people made it even worse because they just wanted him killed instead of letting him lived.The desicions the people were making werent fair because he should have a chance to live just like the others. Not all judgements are bad because that might be good to deny. I think in some ways God does want us to make judgments so we know right from wrong.
ReplyDeleteMarcus wants to find the Eagle for the Romans because his father "let" the bad people take it and he wanted to gain his respect back for his family. We have similiar actions because we always do things becuase of something or were supposed to do something. For example we have to come to school. Some people are forced and others arent.
I disagree with A. Foster. Marcus did not want to find the eagle because his father "let" the people take it away. He wanted to find out what really happened when the eagle was stolen. I do agree though when you say that he wanted to restore honor to his name but i think you are incorrect when saying that marcus' father "let" them have it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Azaria that the people in the stands were saying that Esca was weak and slow. In the heart Esca was a true and loyal friend. Marcus saved his life because he saw that in the heart Esca was strong. The Bible says that man looks at the outward appearance and God looks at the heart.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Marcus really save Esca?
Why does Esca almost betray Marcus?
M. Hehner...I think that everyone has a sensitive side and so I think that because Marcus saved Esca was because he had sympathy toward him; he didn't want to see and innocent, mistreated person to get killed for entertainment. Also, I don't know why Esca almost betray's marcus, but here is my guess:
ReplyDelete1.) Esca was acting so that he could get information and then escape from them.
2.) Esca wanted to be with his people for a little bit and see what it was like.
3.) Esca was tired of being treated like a slave or being called a slave so he wanted to switch roles with Marcus for a while.
Also, I agree with Logan when he says that Marcus' father didn't "let" the "bad people" have the idol. I remember in the movie one of the witnesses of Marcus' fathers death said that his father fought hard and that he didn't give up. So technically he didn't let them have it, he fought for it until he died.
I agree with Logan when he said he doesn't think Marcus was trying to find the Eagle because the people took it away. The reason he was trying to find the Eagle was he wanted to find out what happened to it. He was doing it to restore honor to his family name.
ReplyDeleteIn response to L. Brown i see where your coming from when you say that he didn't "let" the bad people take it away. I was trying to say that it was like......... I dont know how to say it but not like he let them have the eagle so i totally get where your coming from.
ReplyDeleteSomething i just remembered was that Marcus wanted to know if is dad was a cowered and just let the bad people kill him or did he die fighting. That shows that Marcus cares about the image everyone else got of his dad. I cant relate to how he feels but he just wants help on how his dad was as a man and a father because he died when Marcus was young(to young for him to remember a lot).
ReplyDeleteWe make a lot of judgements even when we do not mean to. The senator's son started to judge Marcus when he stood up and was upset about the comment made about his families' honor. Many people thought because Esca was a slave that he was weak. Esca in my opinion was a better fighter than Marcus and Esca knew how to live off the land. Marcus was judged by Esca when he talked about the eagle and the pride it brought to all of Rome. Esca said that there is no sense in putting your life down for a piece of metal. Marcus judged Esca as a man who could endure a lot of mental pain when he as told the story of how his mother died when Esca could still be in terrible pain for the rest of his life. At the end of the movie Marcus and Esca carry the eagle into the head of the government's office and put it down. Many of the people thought that it was only Marcus that did the work when really Esca did work to. The Senator was judging them and asked how Marcus did it with just a slave (judgement) and Marcus said Esca knew more about freedom than the senator ever would (judgement).
ReplyDeleteThe only judgement I think was fair in some ways was when Marcus put all the pride of Rome in the eagle and Esca judged him. That judgement was based off of the fact that Marcus did was too prideful in the eagle.
All judgements made by people can be used wrong to spread rumors, to think about someone different, and many other things. We often use judgment wrong. God wants us to judge him in my opinion. We should judge God as a "person" who is kind, loving, and accepting, but also can do what others deserve to recieve
I'd like to bring about another point. In the beginning the other soldiers around the table were judging Marcus, because of his father. They had no right to say that! First of all Marcus isn't his father. He barely knew him, and the men had never even met his father. Second, they didn't even know for sure if his father was actually a coward. They saw what had happened and made their own conclusion based off of false facts.
ReplyDeleteRegarding what Marcus's intentions were when he was going to find the eagle, I have plenty of Ideas. I think we are trying to look at the heart of a movie character which is crazy, but it is also impossible to see into other peoples hearts! Only God can do that. We see peoples actions and try to make assumptions, but we can't read minds. I guess my opinion would be that Marcus was trying to make good in the best way he knew possible. Think of it this way, you here people talk about your best friend behind their back. Wouldn't you want to do everything possible to prove their innocence?
God also tells us that we can't see inside the heart, and it is not our job to do it. God is the ultimate judge! We can only try to see who people are, but we fail miserably.
I agree with Izzy when she says that It is never okay to judge people on their outward appearance, but if you know the person really well and that they have done good actions in the past then we should be allowed to judge them for that. I also agree with Maggi when she said that God is the ultimate judge, and that even though we try to judge people on the outside it backfires. I think that Marcus didn't care about what other people thought of him, what really mattered to him was seeking out the truth. We also shouldn't care about what others think of us, we should just know that God only looks at the heart.
ReplyDeleteWhen Esca was in the arena he was judged upon being a salve and being a Britain. The Romans were yelling to kill him because nobody cared and they just wanted to see something happen. Then when Marcus met the tribe people they looked at the markings on his neck to make sure that he was a Roman. Once they knew he was a 'slave' to Esca and a Roman, he didn't matter to them and they were perfectly fine with abusing him.
ReplyDeleteThe judgements they made weren't fair or right. The people didn't know what background they had or anything about them, so they should not have been the ones deciding if he should live or die.
Maggie I agree, they should not have judged Marcus for who his father was. Missy I also agree: Marcus was not the only one getting judged. Esca was judged as a slave. Now that I think about it the movie had a lot of judgment Esca was treated poorly in the begging because he was "just a slave", but during the movie Marcus was treated the same when he was accused of being Escas slave. I don't think this was fair at all. Although we don't know what was going on in their hearts because only God can see the heart!
ReplyDeleteAnother aspect of judging from the outward appearance was the little boy in the painted tribe. When he first appeared, I figured him to be a savage who thinks poorly of all Romans. I judged him by where he lives (outward appearance), even though he ends up not telling anyone about Marcus' escape. We can judge people not just by how they look, but by what culture they live in or where they grow up.
ReplyDeleteI too thought that the little kid would have told everyone and the tribe would go to find them, he was very easily portrayed as a traitor, but in the end he keeps his promise.
ReplyDeleteMarcus is pushed by pride and the urge to restore his family honor. He constantly is saying why he has to restore his honor. I also think Marcus is pushed by idols ,the eagle and the fake gods. Multiple times he was shown worship a idol. He also kills many people including a little boy in the process of getting the eagle. A good motivation Marcus has is respect for people. He even respected Esca even though he was a slave.
ReplyDeleteEsca is pushed on by his duty to serve Marcus and his honor. He earns Marcus' respect when he goes to get soldiers to defend the eagle.
I think that the movie made Marcus look evil in some scenes which I didn't think it should've been included in the movie. It made him look cruel in some parts which I didn't like. They also made Esca look weak in the fighting ring scene when I thought they should've made him fight back.
ReplyDeleteI think your right Maddie about what you said about Esca looking weak, but if they didn't make him look helpless it would have ruined the plot. Marcus would have never saved his life, and in return Esca wouldn't have helped Marcus get the eagle. I think what was mainly driving the characters in this movie was hate. The whole movie was based upon hate.In Proverbs 25:17 it say,"Withdraw thy foot from thy neighbour's house; lest he be weary of thee, and [so] hate thee.Withdraw thy foot from thy neighbor's house; lest he be weary of thee, and so hate thee." The Romans in this movie did the exact opposite. They went in and started conquering everything. I think the tribal people had every right to kill them
ReplyDeleteBell, I like what you are getting at. Marcus wouldn't have saved Esca if he looked strong and fought back. Also, I think they were trying to reveal a little bit of how his life was. The director might have wanted to show that death would be easier than the life he had. I think this whole movie showed that we can't see into peoples hearts. Marcus couldn't see why Esca lied about who they were so automatically he was mad. No one could see into anyones heart, nor tried which caused a lot of sin. As well, in many parts of the movie, I had an urge to see into the peoples hearts. When the man killed his son because Esca was friendly to him, I was really upset. I wanted to understand why he did it. That is another way this movie kept me interested. I always wanted to know what everyone was really thinking, but I can't because only God can do that.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree that Marcus was pushed on by idols. I think that he was pushed on by what his father did and to regain his honor back. He was in the camp and he left and told the kid not to tell anyone. When the father came out and said to Esca that this is what happens to traitors and killed his son, I think that Marcus was fighting for that to. Deep down I think that he sees everyone as an equal. One way you see this is when he saves Esca's life. This is a question I will leave you with, do we see everyone as a equal?
ReplyDeleteTo Mason
ReplyDeleteMan is sinful. In this world there is never equality. Even in school people think that there better than some person or somebody even if they don't even know that it is in there hearts. 2 Corinthians 8:13-14 says; "Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need."
My answer is that we don't see people as a equal all the time. We must try to humbly for God wants us to.
I think it was wrong for them to judge Marcus. His father died trying to save the eagle, yet people still say he was a coward. That shows we are sinful. We judge by what people tell us and what "we" think we know.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do think that idols were definitely a main cause for Marcus, I don't it was the only one. I agree with Mason when you say that you think that the killing of the son pushed him on. He seemed to fight out the anger of seeing that boy killed. You can tell that he was deeply affected by seeing that.
ReplyDeleteMarcus had many motivations in the movie, if you think back before he had Esca as a slave and before he got hurt his motivations were very good. in the beginning he is a leader of a Roman army. his motivations then were to be a good leader and help his men even by risking his life. in daylight the enemy is comming towards their fort, with the men he sent out for food as prisoners. He decides to lead some men out there to rescue them, the enemy starts killing the prisoners. Marcus goes for the leader of their army kills his "right man" and knocks the chariot on top of him. all of this is to save his men, and as a result he is hurt.
ReplyDeleteRomans 12:8 says "if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully." this verse is saying if you are to lead do it carefully, eagerly and seriously. which is exactly what Marcus does, he makes his decisions carefully. always eager to lead his men. doesn't joke around and does the job right.
in life today everyone wants to be that kind of leader that does things right. sadly many people that have the chance to lead misuse their power and become a dictator.
I agree with you sofie. The fact that people judged Marcus's father even though he died to try and save them was just wrong. But they were also taking their judgment out on Marcus when all he was trying to do was restore his fathers name and prove to everyone that what they think his father did wasn't the truth.
ReplyDeleteto add on, no not all the judgements we make are bad. we do occasionaly make our judgrement on outside appearance not by how God wants us to see them. yes, God does want us to make judgements, but with that said we need to seek him on these decisions.
ReplyDeleteThe motivations of Marcus was manly to retrieve the Eagle. Marcus want to do this to restore honor think that is the only motivation that Marcus had.
ReplyDeleteAs I read the question for this page I realize that while the movie was going on, I MYSELF was making judgements at how other people looked in the movie. I do think that a lot of the judgements we make about people's outward appearance is bad.
ReplyDeleteAnd I love what you said lauren about motivation. I do agree that he is motivated to be the leader of the army. That is exactly what I was thinking.
Because of Marcus' actions, we have clues to what he believes and what motivates him.
ReplyDelete1) During the movie, Marcus worships false gods. Because he does this, we know he doesn't believe in the Christian God.
2) Marcus saved Esca in the arena. He said that Esca should live. We can tell that Marcus' is compassionate because he didn't just let Esca die.
3) We can tell what motivates Marcus by how he acts. Marcus sets off to find the eagle because people were telling him that no Roman could. Part of what motivates Marcus is the fact that he doesn't want anyone to tell him that he can't do something.
We see people doing things for this reason in our culture too. Whenever someone tells me I can't do something, I also want to go do it to prove to them that I actually can. Philippians 4:13 says, "I can do all this through him who gives me strength." Nothing can stop you from doing anything because God is who gives you the strength and power to do it.
I agree with Lauren that his motivations were good about leading his army. Like she said, he wanted to be a strong leader and lead his army well. However, he also cared about the men in his army. When the bread hadn't arrived, the other leaders didn't care, as lond as they had their bread. But, Marcus told them that the men had to eat too; they are the ones fighting, and they need their strength. Marcus also didn't let his imprisoned men die. He went out and saved them, even though he knew he could get hurt or die. He wouldn't watch his own men fall.
ReplyDelete