a. Some reviewers of the film feel that Marcus and Esca are both honorable men/characters. What exactly is honor? Do you think that Marcus and Esca are honorable characters? How do they show honor and how do they do not? Is honor a Biblical concept? Where do we find it?
b. Is Marcus' honor really a form of idolatry? How might Esca really be the one that understands honor? Give examples.
Honor, to me, is having high respect for someone. Yes, I do think both Marcus and Esca are honorable men, but Esca more than Marcus. Marcus' father got dishonored because he lost the eagle and ever since than everyone in the town had made jokes about their whole family. I belive Marcus showed honor when he got so tired of everyone making jokes, that he actually went out and tried to find the eagle so that he could restore his families name. On the other hand, I think Esca was an incredible character in this movie because of his great honor toward Marcus. In the beginning of the movie, after Esca was in the fighting ring, he was declared Marcus's slave. Esca promised him that he would not leave his side. Even though Marcus did not show Esca a lot of respect and he wasn't very kind to him, Esca still kept his head high and honored Marcus by sticking by him. Another example of Esca showing honor is when both men are fighting on the ground and they run into the Seal people. I beilve he showed hidden honor towards Marcus to protect him. He said to Guern that he was his slave. I think that he was definatly honoring Marcus by keeping him safe from the Seal people. Esca could have just said "He's a Roman. You can kill him," but he didn't. He kept him safe by honoring him. The last way I think Esca showed honor to Marcus, is when they are in the river and Marcus needs to rest because he hurt his leg. Esca was not just about to get up and leave Marcus there. Marcus told Esca a number of times to leave him and to go on. But, Esca refused and stood by him unitl Marcus freed him. He did, and Esca left. Later on, you find that Esca returns, but he returns with the whole Roman army to rescue Marcus. I don't think that Esca or Marcus didn't show honor in the movie. Yes, honor is a Biblical concept. We can find it in Romans 12:10, it says "Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other."
ReplyDeleteSome good thoughts here. Are you saying that to be honorable is to be respectful or is there more to it?
ReplyDeleteHannah Groce makes a good point. To me honor is making someone proud, exalting someone with your actions, and also respect. I agree with Hannah in that they were both honorable, but in different ways. Even though Marcus worshiped an idol and maybe also Rome, he tried to honor what he believed in. That life was all that he knew, so he did what he thought was best.
ReplyDeleteThen there is Esca. I agree that he honored Marcus by respecting him, but he did so much more than that. Respecting Marcus was partly just doing his duty as his slave, but he also showed love and selflessness. I think honor is partly being selfless and doing the right thing. He risked everything for Marcus. He even betrayed "his people" just to save him.
Jeremy also makes a good point. Honor is so much more than respect. It is selfless love and devotion. Marcus was devoted and honorable, but he wasn't all that selfless. I think honor was probably the main theme of the movie. Marcus wanted to bring honor to his family and country from the beginning, while Esca just brought honor in a less flashy way.
I also agree that God wants us to honor him and our neighbors. I stumbled upon Psalm 15:4. " who despises a vile person but honors those who fear the LORD; who keeps an oath even when it hurts." It is talking about a person who does the right thing, and loves good but despises evil. I also think this verse relates to the movie. Although we are all sinners, and they didn't believe in God Esca still sort of did what was in this verse, He risked his life and his reputation to save marcus, and even though he was free he still came back for him. It was hard and painful, but he did what was right. I think God wants us to act in that way as well.
Regarding Mr. Scott's comment, yes, I do think being honorable is being respectful.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Marcus' honor was a form of idolatry. He honored his father and his country, but he worshipped the idols of false gods. Marcus didn't search for the eagle because it was all he cared about, he searched for it to redeem his family's name, his country, and to prove others wrong. Everyone was telling Marcus that no Roman could return the eagle to Rome. He didn't believe them and set off to prove them wrong.
ReplyDeleteEsca definitely knows what true honor is and understands it. He was appointed Marcus' slave, and he promised Marcus that he would always stand by him. When Esca had the chance to kill Marcus he didn't. Esca saved Marcus from the tribe people. He told them that Marcus was his slave instead of a Roman. Esca showed honor to Marcus in this way. Also, Marcus told Esca to leave him behind when he was hurt, but Esca wouldn't leave. Multiple times Esca was told to go, but he didn't. Only after Esca was freed and promised to come back with help did he go. Esca's actions prove that he understands the true meaning of honor and that he sets out to follow it.
I think Marcus and Esca were both honorable. In my opinion honor means having good character, being honest and being righteous. Marcus and Esca showed honor by being loyal to one another. They both had good character and were there for each other throughout the whole movie. God tells us to honor our mother and father so I think He wants us to honor each other as well.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Casey that Esca and Marcus were being honorable by remaining friends through the whole movie even when they got inro fights. They were both trying to get honor back to their families. They kept with each other even through thick and thin. God says to honor our mother and father but also to love our neighbors as ourselves.
ReplyDeleteI dis-agree with B. Brugner, Marcus' honor, I believe, was a form of idolatry. Marcus honored the eagle, but he also worshiped it. The eagle meant everything to him, and in a way it was his idol. Near the end, right before Esca came back with help, he takes a stick and plants the eagle the ground, he would give everything for the eagle including his life.
ReplyDeleteTo N. Rogers,
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying but I dont think he would give up his life for the eagle itself. He would give up his life to return it in order to honor his father and country, not the actual piece of metal.
I agree with the reviewers, they make a good point. Esca is very honorable because he took what Marcus thought was important seriously and respected Marcus for it. He helped Marcus through everything and fought side by side with him to help defeat his old friends but new enemies, which takes a lot of courage and dedication to a friend.
ReplyDeleteMarcus, on the other hand, was another honorable character in The Eagle. Marcus fought for what he believed in and stuck with it, even when other tribes made fun of him and disrespected him for it. He saw what no other men saw in Esca and even trusted Esca with basically his life.
To B. Brugner,
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying but, again, I disagree. He was trying to return honor to his name I agree with that, but I disagree that he wouldn't give up his life for the piece of metal. He was also trying to restore honor to Rome, it meant everything to him to restore that honor.
I feel that honor is something that is hard to define. Everyone has their own opinion on what honor really is. Honor, to me, is that you never fall back on your values and you always respect others values. I think that both Marcus and Esca truly show what honor is supposed to be like.
ReplyDeleteNever, in this whole movie did I see Marcus's honor as a form of idolatry. In this movie Esca really showed, for me, the true meaning of honor. He didn't show honor just by respect. Like when he threw his dagger on the ground in front of Marcus he was honoring him. He was saying I honor you because you valued my life.
I definely think that Marcus and Esca are honorable men. When Esca kept his word that he will be faithful to Marcus and never leave him. He used that excuse that Marcus was he slave not to teach Mr. Proud Marcus a lesson, but ot save there lives from that tribe.
ReplyDeleteI do think that Marcus does have honor as a idol, but Esca is the only one who honor. He came back to save him even if got the chance to leave him to die for what the Romans did to his father and brothers.
Honor is many things. I think that honor means to earn respect, not abuse it and to respect others. I think that Marcus and Esca are honorable, but they do have some flaws. Esca shows his honor when he helps Marcus go across the wall to get the eagle. He also stays loyal to Marcus when he coyuld abandon him and he brings soldiers back to help defend the eagle. Marcus shows his honor when he goes to restore his honor through the eagle. He also frees Esca and respects him. Marcus is obsessed to get honor though.
ReplyDeleteHonor is in the Bible. Many men have honor. Some Abuse it. Saul abuses his honor when he disobeys God and the people in Noah's time time think they are better than God. David shows his honor for sayl when he spares his life.
Marcus' honor is idolatry in my opinion because he only cares about that and does not care about what others think or say about htis.
ReplyDeleteEsca shows honor when he helps Marcus even though he hates Rome he knows his place. He also saves Marcus even though he was freed and tired of running.
To N. Rogers,
ReplyDeleteI agree that he would give up his life, but it's the reasons behind it why I disagree with you. I don't think that he would give it up because he worshipped the eagle, but because he felt he should protect it in order to honor his country and family.
Good thoughts so far.
ReplyDeleteHere is another question:
Is honor a trait found in students in the 8th grade? Where do you see it? Where don't you see it? Do you think being honorable is a trait students seek to have or is it looked down on?
Honor is when you have worked hard for something and earned it. It is also a privilege. Yes i do think Marcus and Esca are honorable people but you cant give them to much honor or they will become even more prideful. They both didnt respect each other at times but they both came together and worked as a team. Yes because we as christians honor God.In the Bible we honor God. No its not because he isnt obsessed with his self. He might because he has seen all sides of the people. He can speak other lauguges.(not correct) He also was on the other side of the Romans.
ReplyDeleteHonor is when people look up to you for what you have done/accomplished. I also do think that both Marcus and Esca are very honorable men after what they have done and what they went through.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes I do think that honor is a biblical concept.... "Honor your father and your mother".
I agree with Azaria on many of the things that she said like... that they worked as a team.
thanks Nick i also agree with you when you said that honor is when people look up to and of what you have done.
ReplyDeleteI love the comment posted by Belle. Though I do agree with Hannah that honor is respect, I also believe that it is much more than that. I love how Belle mentioned that she thinks honor is also sticking to your values. Adding to that, I believe knowing where you stand and practicing what you preach is very honorable.
ReplyDeleteAnswering Mr. Scott, honor is a trait you can find in eighth grade. You can find it in people who themselves honor their authorities, can stand up for what they believe in, humble, and are well grounded. These people are mostly the ones who are the leaders in sports teams, clubs, and/or other school activities. A place where you don’t often see it can be almost anywhere. They are people who think lowly (in a bad way) of themselves and the ones who don’t know their morals.
I believe it can be looked at in both ways. I know I seek to become honorable because I want to be a leader, stand up for myself, and have good morals, which I live by. I can also see why it is looked down upon. People might think of them as being cocky or “too big for their britches” because they think they’re “all that”, but in reality, they are not all like that.
To B Brugner,
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying but, I think Marcus did worship the Eagle. Marcus did want to restore honor to his country and family I agree with that. In the beginning Marcus prayed to a wooden eagle that his father had given to him as a boy, it was as model of the real Eagle this is why i think he worshiped the Eagle
Nick I can see what your saying, but I do not think that he was praying TO the eagle. I think that the eagle his dad made him reminded Marcus of his dad. So when he was praying, he was praying to his dad, the eagle was just a symbol of him to be remembered by.
ReplyDeleteTo N. Rogers,
ReplyDeleteI don't think he was praying to the eagle. I think there was an idol in front of him that he was praying to, or like Mason said, he was really praying to his dad.
To N. Rogers
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think the same as brooke. That marcus was not worshiping the eagle. he was trying to restore honor to his family and Rome. When he was praying to the eagle i believe that he was praying to his father because his father made him the eagle. I do think that he would risk his life for the eagle but not because he worships the eagle.
Both of your points make sense, but I think the eagle was an idol for Marcus. The Bible says that idols are not just things we worship, but also things that can consume our lives such as sports and school. In this case, the eagle was consuming Marcus's life to the point of that's all he would think about. He was willing to risk Esca's life and to get the eagle. He would also not listen to Esca's advice even though Esca knew the land better.
ReplyDeleteI think honor is found in the 8th grade. Like for example if you are really good at a sport people look up to you and try to do what you do. I think honor is something you want to have because then people are looking up to you as a role model sort of.
ReplyDeleteI agree and disagree with C. Hinds because honor isn't always being like the best and having someone look up to u honor is also the fact that your doing the right thing and people are following your examples but it can be when your good at something and people want to follow.
ReplyDeleteI also think that with honor comes pride. for Example at the end of the movie when Esca and Marcus came back with the Eagle they walked away like now what? whos the hero now? and that why i think honor can also be a bad thing on so many levels.
I agree with Azaria about honor isn't just being the best, but doing the right thing. I do think that honor is looked down on in 8th grade, but I see it in many of class mates as well. I do agree with C. Hinds about being a role model to people, but also we must look up not only to people, but to God and Jesus.
ReplyDeleteNeil, I think what your saying is totally true, and I also agree with the fact that honor is looked down upon a lot in our grade. Although, I also think that it's not completely gone, like you said, you can see it in many of our classmates. In the movie I personally didn't like how Marcus was trying and searching for The Eagle to bring HONOR back to his family. I think honor is something that you do out of your own will and mind, not out of purposefully looking for it.
ReplyDeleteOutward appearances in the movie I thought were very deceiving. For example, Esca and the man in the fighting ring. The large man wearing the mask was considered strong and unbeatable when, in the end, Esca's life was preserved when Marcus voted for him to stay alive. Esca was seen as a weak link and a dirty, old slave. They all thought he would be killed but he was saved.
To me, honor is when you are recognized for the good things you have accomplished. People look up to you because of what you have done. But the heart of the person receiving the honor has to be in the right place. The people who are most honored are the people who did what they did humbly. One day in class Mr. Scott told us a story about a man in the army. He loved his men so much that he dived on a grenade that otherwise would have killed his men. He was given the Medal of Honor for doing that selfless thing.
ReplyDeleteI think that both Esca and Marcus were honorable men. Sometimes Esca was more honorable and then Marcus was honorable at other times. When Esca was willing to die and stay with Marcus in the river rather than saving himself, that is honor. At the same time, Marcus was showing honor too. He had finally gotten what he had wanted the whole time, and he was willing to die just to save the Eagle.
I think that people shouldn't be out trying to gain honor for themselves, but for God. John 12:26 says" Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me." This proves that honoring God is the most important thing, not honoring man. When honor God, we are honoring the King of Kings, that should be our biggest goal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the film reviewers that Marcus and Esca are very honorable men. The dictionary defines honor as “a good name, given respect, a person of superior standing, an exalted rank, and/or with keen sense of ethical conduct.”
ReplyDeleteYes I do think they are honorable characters. First, for their loyalty: even though they went through trials of many kinds, they still stuck with each other, and put each other first. Second, they are brave men with determination. It was a very dangerous journey to find the eagle, but they both held their heads high with a fire to receive it. Third, Marcus risked his life (and leg) saving his men from the foreign attackers.
Yes, I do believe it is a Biblical concept. It tells us in various verses to honor God. But is it right to honor people? In 1 Samuel 2:30, it says,“Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the LORD declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.” Even the LORD says He will honor us if we honor him. So, honor is not a bad thing. However, we need to remember to honor God before ourselves.
Izzy made a good point by saying that honor is not bad. Some people might connect honor with pride. Sometimes when you are prideful, you desire to have honor, to be respected by others. If you were in a war, and you die to save your friends, that is honorable. We do not have to go to those extremes though to be honorable. We can help others and have a heart for God. Everyday situations, such as when someone drops something, help him or her pick it up. Being an honorable person shows others how to please God.
ReplyDeleteOctober 26, 2011 9:02 AM
Responding to Mr. Scott's post about honor in the 8th grade, I don't see it in the classes. Some kids disrespect the teachers by disobeying or not listening to them. Proverbs 13:13 says, "Whoever scorns instruction will pay for it, but whoever respects a command is rewarded." Some students don't honor the place of the teachers. Where I do see respect is in sports. A lot of kids who don't give honor and respect to teachers will give it to coaches because they think sports will get them further than school will. It's good to see this honor, but it would be better to see it both in the classroom and on the field as well.
ReplyDeleteI have the same thoughts Izzy,
ReplyDeleteYes, I also think that they were both honorable characters, they both trusted each other and pretty much would fight to death side by side, helping each other as the battle goes on. At one point Esca tells Marcus to free him of his slavery. In doing so, he said he would find help. Esca could have just ran away and never came back and left Marcus for dead. But he came back with warriors ready to fight.
Marcus is honorable too, he was honoring what he thought his father wanted him to do, which was to find the eagle. But it wasn't something just to go do to say he did it, he did it for his father. His father was known for (at least thought) running away and leaving the eagle behind. He wanted to get his fathers honor back to him too, not only his own.
Also Izzy, i think that is a good verse for this topic. You're right, honor is not a bad thing, although if we let it go to our heads, then it could become something more. Yes, i think it is a biblical topic, like it is stated in the verse in Izzys comment, "Those who honor me I will honor." Like you said, honor him, and he will honor you.
I agree with you Ben. They were both honorable. Marcus is honorable by always fighting through the tough times and not giving up. He honored and worshipped the eagle which was abviously wrong because we know that we should only worship God. God wants up to honor our mother and father but not to worship it which makes it go to our heads. The commandments cleatly state that we should honor our mother and father.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Mckenna said. Honor is noticing that you did something good. Its just that too much of it an lead to being bad. A lot of the people honored Marcus because he was a good leader and he made good decisions but Marcus acted prideful because he knew he was being honored.
ReplyDeleteI think we look at honor in the wrong way. We honor someone for the accomplishments they have made. If someone that is "famous" by means of culture asked you to get them lunch, you would ask "What do you want?", because we honor them. If any random person asked you the same thing, we would say "no way!" We honor people for worldly accomplishments and really the honor goes to God. Sometimes when we should honor God for his gifts to talented people, we honor and sometimes idolize them. Honor is a good thing, but sin has ruined it.
ReplyDeleteI like the way you added the Fall into this Nathan. You're right, people have perverted what honor(ing) really is. Sin has ruined everything, and it's why the world is the way it is now.
ReplyDeleteI think what Nathan said was really good. We should not honor people just because of the things they have done, but we should glorify and honor God. But because of the Fall we are now sinful and look to worldly things to honor. Examples of these things are singers, athletes, rich people, etc.
ReplyDeleteIn the best case scenario, we would all be honoring God. 1 Corinthians 10:31, "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." We should all honor God in everything that we do. God can be honored by simple things that we do everyday, that in our culture would never be thought of as honorable.
Thinking of others before yourself is a great way to show others honor.
I think that because we don't always glorify God, we should honor what is good. People that fit into this category are people who have served or serve in the military. They voluntarily risked their lives to protect us. Some even died to save their friends. People who do things to honor themselves do not deserve to be honored, but those who do what they do purely for the people they are serving should get honored greatly.
Yeah, we should all be honoring God in all that we do. It's kind of hard to do though, because we are so selfish and want whats best for us. It's messed up. But we can't help it, we're just like that. So I think that we should be reading our bible and praying to God so that we can get used to focusing on God more than ourselves.
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 6:20 "For you were bought with a price. So HONOR God with your body."
All of our talents including music, singing, athletics, writing, reading, listening, all come from God. We didn't give ourselves those talents. God did, so we should honor him, not ourselves.
Lucy, I agree when you say we should be honoring God in all that we do. I don't think they did a very good job of that in the movie.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Marcus should have honored Esca more for helping him in his journey.
ReplyDeletethere is no doubt to me that both men are honorable. Honor isn't just respecting to me it is also the person that has honor for another,being able to show respct to someone is an honorable trait.
ReplyDeleteEsca: over and over again Esca showed honor towards Marcus. Marcus was his master and you would think the slave would take any chance he got to be free. he doesn't and instead saves his masters life. once Marcus and Esca went through the wall onto the other side, technically Esca is free, he doesn't leave Marcus abandoned though. he stays with him, guides him, and lies risking his life to save Marcus'. a few examples are when they encounter the painted people,Esca lied and said Marcus was his slave instead of "go ahead kill him, he's roman". also when he finally unwillingly leaves Marcus by the stream, why wouldn't you run be free and save yourself, thats not what Esca does though. he returns with the men that remain from Marcus' dads army. he still doesnt leave then, he stays and fights for a "roman" army.
moving on to Marcus, who also showed honor to Esca. the first time they meet is when Esca is fighting a gladiator, Marcus leads the people in a thumbs up meaning spare him. the people(Marcus) had spoke and Esca was saved. because of that action Marcus gets Esca as a slave, he takes him off on his quest to find Romes eagle. the eagle was hidden deep in the hill country were Escas people are from. they succeed and get the eagle. after returning it to rome Esca asks "now what" and Marcus says "you decide"this shws Esca honor because he is no longer his slave.
Honor is a Biblical concept as it is found many places in the Bible including 1 peter 2:17 "Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king" in this verse it tells us to honor the king, but show proper respect to everyone. if we are to only honor the king, then if we think we are honorable we are being self-centered because all honor goes to God. in that case i believe both men are worthy of eachothers respect.
I think that Marcus did honor Esca because near the end they show them walking off together. Obviously Marcus is thankful that Esca helped him, because they were best friends in the end. Also, Marcus freed Esca. I think Marcus showed a lot of Honor to Esca there.
ReplyDeleteThats also why I think one of the main themes of this movie is friendship.
And wow Lauren, I really liked your comment
ReplyDeleteI really don't think Marcus honored Esca all that well. The one point where I really saw Marcus honer Esca, was when he set him free and told him he did not have to come back. I think the movie was supposed to be about Esca honoring Marcus though. The people who created this movie, I believe, were trying to put across the idea of selfless love and friendship. I also think that honor isn't something we should just search for in the movie and in the Bible, but in everyday life. I see honor in the hallway when someone helps another pick up their books when they drop them. I also see it when people go out of their way to stand up for someone being gossiped about. Honor isn't just something from medieval or Biblical times, but something we see now. No, we don't go on quests to return honor in the 8th grade, but we can do small things out of selfless love to help others.
ReplyDeleteTo M. Eachus
ReplyDeleteI think those are great and powerful words. I do think that honor wasn't a thing of the past, it has seem different to us in present time. We don't know that we are doing it, but we all are doing it so many times every day.
That is a very good point Maggie. I think about the part of the movie when Marcus and Esca are arguing and Marcus yells,"You're still my slave." This seems to show that Marcus still showed no honor to Esca. Marcus proves over and over in the first half of the movie that he has no care for Esca. Every time Esca is trying to help Marcus speak to the natives, Marcus looks annoyed and yells at Esca to hurry up. He has no appreciation that Esca is trying to help him.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maggie. I think Marcus was a bit pompous in his attitude towards Esca. I almost think Esca taught Marcus a lesson. A much needed lesson. Esca really understood what honor meant. Marcus thought honor was an object that could be gained or lost in a split-second.
ReplyDeleteI believe Esca deserves more honor than he got throughout the movie. He was treated poorly in the beginning, in fact he was almost killed in the ring. Marcus did want to go on the journey to find the eagle, and sure he found it, but he could not have done it with out Escas help. I dont think Esca got as much honor as Marcus which I think is unfair.
ReplyDeletesofie i really like what you said about esca not getting enough credit. however, i do think as we got farther in to the movie Escas honor increased. also,by the end i was happy with how they showed Esca as a slave having the choice to be free, but staying with his friend. overall, i think the amount of credit Esca got was enough, but Marcus was definitely shown as the hero.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Hannah said at the very beginning that Honor means to have trust in someone. I think both Marcus and Esca in the movie were very honorable men, but I think Esca was also more honorable then Marcus. Throughout the movie all Esca did was stand by Marcus and help him try to find the eagle and restore his families name. Even though Marcus knew that Esca might try to kill him when they were finally alone but Esca didn't and he was there for Marcus the whole time. Esca was also risking his life for Marcus so that when danger came up, Esca was always there to try and help them get out of it.
ReplyDeletei think that honor is not a form of idolatry. one verse that points this out is from 1 Samuel 2:30, it says,“Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the LORD declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.” even God says that he will honor you if you honor him so that is why i dont think that honor is idolatry.
ReplyDeleteSofie I agree with you. Your right Esca did a bunch of great things that he wasn't honored for.
ReplyDelete